Friday, 26 April 2024

The Holocaust and the Roma

These days I tend to listen to an awful lot of podcasts. I'd heard this fella (Dr Waitman Beorn) on We Have Ways some time ago and saw that he had his own podcast. The episode below caught my eye. A subject I never knew anything about (beyond the fact the Roma were on the list of groups targeted by the Nazis). I remember a page in a series of magazines about WWII from the early 70s showing the various badges that different groups had to wear - yellow stars, pink triangles etc. Beyond that, I knew next to nothing. Pretty much the same as most people probably.

It won't be any surprise to anyone who has more than a passing interest in History, that the picture is much more complex than might be supposed. A fair amount of time is needed just to discuss who the people under discussion were. There wasn't even agreement at the time. In 1944, the Germans released people that the Dutch authorities had sent to them as Roma, that the Germans considered were not!

The sobering thought for me personally is that, had Britain fallen under a similar or the same regime, my mother's grandparents (if not her mother) could have ended up being 'removed'. They lived in a fairly small town. An ordinary town, full of ordinary, decent people. It couldn't happen here. Could it?



10 comments:

  1. That is an intriguing comment about your wife's antecedents, Chris - were they Romany (or Roma as it is nowadays)??

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    1. Not my wife’s. My mother’s. I only found out about it about 5 years ago. They were ‘settled Roma’ from East Yorkshire. Oddly enough my wife did a project with Roma (a much more traditional group than my lot) during her studies in Finland, which she really enjoyed doing. Maybe it’s why she knows how to handle me 😆
      Chris

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  2. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. It is indeed something that I too have little knowledge of . A thought provoking final paragraph.
    Alan Tradgardland

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    1. You’re welcome Alan.
      Chris

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  3. As Alan has said, the final paragraph makes one think and, given the increasingly polarised nature of society these days, something that could sadly happen here and in other parts of Europe too:(.

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  4. Sadly yes it could’ve happened in the UK and it definitely happened here in what was Vichy France (though apparently everyone I’ve talked to here had relatives in the resistance…mmmm). Since many Roma were undocumented in the countries they travelled through we’ll probably never know how many were disappeared.

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    1. Good point about the documentation. The podcast talked about steps taken by states across Europe from the late 19th C onwards to control Roma*, so there might have been more documented than we think. Not all were peripatetic either.
      There was also a discussion at the end of the pod about the lack of research resources available. Being from generally poorer sections of the population, the Roma didn’t have the money to set-up foundations in the way that Jewish communities were able to do post-War.
      * the prisoners of one camp (in France?) weren’t released until 1946!

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  5. Interesting post Chris, no doubt made triply so for you with your personal connection.
    Sadly, fear of the other is as present now as it was then and in eras previous. And in all countries and regions. We have at least four horrific examples of it being used at present with deadly consequences in Ukraine, Middle East, Burma and Sudan.
    We can, do and will only move beyond stereotyping (and worse) by realising that people are people and embracing the vibrancy that comes with difference, while realising that we are far more similar than we are different (99.9% in terms of genes).
    Knowledge of such events is important for greater understanding and to make us aware and wary of modern analogues.
    Being 'history buffs' can be quite unsettling, can't it? Especially when our shared interest is derived from the horror of armed conflict!
    Regards, James

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    1. Thanks James. I couldn’t add to that, and agree with every word.
      Chris

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