So you might be finking that after buying those Brigade Models fortress pieces I would crack on and paint them up. That would be too easy for me. You might have noticed a trend on this blog for me to agonise/navel gaze or indulge a propensity for analysis paralysis.
The latest bout of agonising arose when I started thinking about the practicalities of working on the bought pieces. It isn't as simple as cleaning them up and painting them. How should I make higher parapets? I could use a strip of balsa wood or something similar. For that to work I would need to cut off the existing parapet and cut the wood at the appropriate angles - easy for some but I am a bit cack-handed. Green stuff would work - I wouldn't need to cut off the existing parapet but it won't be as neat. Doable options but it involves quite a lot of work. I asked myself would that work be worth the effort?
To help me answer that I thought I'd set-out the pros and cons of the commercial versus the totally scratch built options. When I started doing that I realised there were more things that I'd need (want?) to do with the commercial option.
Commercial Option | |
Pros | Cons |
No drawing | Angles etc not quite ‘right’ |
No cutting | Pieces move on the table |
Flexibly layout | Have to build up parapets - how? |
Difficulty of modelling glacis/covered way without fixed enceinte | |
Have to build up terreplein for enceinte to accommodate bases | |
Homemade Option | |
Pros | Cons |
Dimensions ‘right’ | Drawing |
Glacis/covered way modelled | Cutting |
Individual pieces won’t move in the table | Uncertain properties of materials* |
The satisfaction of the challenge. | Have to cut and stick paper walls |
Inflexible | |
* i.e. will the XPS board cut up bobbly like the expol? I actually tested it and it doesn't, so strike that from the list of cons! It cuts nice and neatly and you can create nice sharp angles.
Overall there is more work with the scracthbuild/homemade option. There is no doubt, but the commercial option comes with a fair amount of work too. More even than I anticipated before I started making the above lists. When it's all done the commercial option, with several separate pieces, is much more flexible. This comes with two challenges. First, how would I stop pieces sliding around on the table? Remember these are TINY pieces. If I stuck them on to a board then I lose the flexibility. If I use magnetic paper, that's more work.
The bigger issue, I think, with the commercial option is the glacis/covered way/ditch ('GCD' for convenience). With a flexible layout cutting pieces for a GCD that is equally flexible multiplies the work and adds to the problem of small pieces moving around the table.
The way I'm feeling right now is I prefer the homemade option. I made the first step by re-drawing the template on paper. At least I've done the main enceinte, with a few ravelins sketched in and a trial sketch for the GCD. Of course I didn't make a copy of the original template!
Something to sleep on. And any comments/suggestions would be very welcome. Of course if I do the homemade option, I'll have a load of fortress pieces spare.
Update
After a number of comments I thought I'd do an update to show the issue with the commercial model. I understand the principle of '1-scale down'. That's why I bought a 2mm scale fortress. I intend to use the fortress with 6mm figures directly on and in it. The parapet is not even knee high to the 6mm figures. That's without a base to support the figures. It's not the overall height of the model fortress that is the issue, it's just the parapet.
There's also a lack of depth on the curtain wall if I'm to have any base for the toy soldiers.
The procrastination issue I can completely relate too! The making part is easy peasy for me, once I know what I want. Remembering that it is just for wargaming and not part of some massive Global project, I still struggle with. Personally I'd play a game with the Brigade Models parts to see how much some of the visual and movement issues are in a game. Then you can make an informed decision on next steps etc. Also, how often are you likely to ever use these pieces in a game?
ReplyDeleteGreat points Steve. Thanks for making them.
DeleteJust placing the Brigade pieces on a cloth for a photo showed me the difficulty of keeping everything in one place, and that’s without moving figures on them.
In terms of the amount of use I’d get out of the fortress model, hopefully a lot. (1) as piece of terrain on the board for a tactical game (either as ‘window dressing’ or as a part of the tactical terrain fought over). (2) hopefully for siege games.
Chris
I call it thinking and planning not procrastination
ReplyDeleteI didn’t do enough thinking and planning before I bought the models! 🙄
DeleteChris
I’m with Matt on this! I call it “research.”
DeleteAgreed!
DeleteAlan Tradgardland
Chris - I'd call it overthinking......☺☺
ReplyDeleteI think because you have set your heart on the homemade option you will have to give it ago.....
Personally, I'd raise the lower part of the commercial fortifications and not worry about the parapet. Yes it will be under scale, but so what?
I think the footprint is more important. Raising the height slightly will help with the visuals or help tie it into other 6mm buildings.
I'm a believer in under scale buildings - the footprint fits better. People get obsessed with the vertical scale and think the buildings and figures should be the same scale. They then ignore the pitifully low hills and trees......
Remember 36 or 48 6mm figures on a base are a pale imitation of the 600-800 or even 1,200 real men - what's important is the footprint of the base matches the ground scale.
A 6mm fortress would be huge; what you are doing is reducing it to a caricature to meet the ground scale, but in so doing you are distorting the vertical scale to match the figures.
I'd glue the pieces to a base in sections, say 4" or 6" that would allow some flexibility in layout. Play a game, it will probably result in a "suspension of disbelief" so the scale difference is less an issue than just comparing with figures in isolation.
I bought a Roman arena; it covers a huge area game wise but is ridiculously under scale for 15mm figures it's simply a representation for me - not an accurate scale model!
Neil
My 2 pfennigs Chris.
ReplyDeleteMaybe persist with the Brigade models one and see how it goes. Then, using lessons learned build your own one. That way you end up with two forts which is what we all want 😁
And with a big enough table you can use them both at the same time.
PS. love the title!
PPS. You can never think too much about wargaming.
You could give it a go with the bought pieces first, they are here, a tweak or two and you will have something . Not your ideal but perfectly workable and service like for your needs, gaming wise. The vibe, spirit of the fortifications wins over 100% accuracy .
ReplyDeleteAlan Tradgardland
You have to do what pleases you Chris, but some people even deliberately use 15mm buildings (or smaller) with 28mm figures, for reasons of ground scale v aesthetics - personally I would not like that but if people can live with it, I could live with the fort being a mm or two too short, I think!
ReplyDeleteI think that Neil is spot on with his comments. We forget that almost everything with scaling in games is wrong. Neil has sound advice - in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteI think Neil raises very reasonable points, if it were me , Id stick your bought fortress on a temporary acting base cardboard? Then try it out, without spending too long on it, so you can refine it later or inform your scratch build?
ReplyDeleteBest Iain
Another vote for what Neil says, very pertinent points put well, but at the end of the day you must go with what makes you happiest, plenty to ponder some more!!
ReplyDeleteOK two things spring to mind.
ReplyDeleteWhy is it important to physically man the fortifications?
A unit placed in the general fortress area or just behind the wall would represent the garrison.
It's highly unlikely troops (apart from artillery) actually occupied the walls until an actual assault; otherwise you are simply exposing your infantry to cannon fire unnecessarily. I doubt real sieges resemble wargamers ideas of what they were like.
Assuming it's really important that you have figures lining the walls. Do they have to be 6mm? As the fortress is reduced scale why not 3mm or 2mm?
https://picoarmor.com/product-category/3mm-seven-years-war/
https://irregular2mm6mm.onlineweb.shop/browse/catvVZaI_662857.aspx
Other than that I think you are stuck with making your own; trying to get the commercial walls to match the figures will just distort the model by trying to match vertical scale while keeping a ground scale footprint.
Making a model that matches the vertical scale will result in a much reduced cartoon of a model - where say three real life redoubts are represented by one model one. Or it will be huge....
Personally I think it's the tail wagging the dog, but they are your toys.
Neil
You beauty, scratch built is back on the menu!!
ReplyDeleteSorry, not very helpful...
Best wishes, James