I winkled some of the recently acquired hoplites off their bases today and tried them out on different sized bases in different configurations. I want to have a system that is compatible with both the standard basing for (non-figure removal) Basic Impetus and for the figure/element removal oriented Alala! (a hoplite specific ruleset).
Probably the biggest question is whether to go for 3 or 2 ranks. My Republican Romans and Carthaginian heavy infantry are in 2 ranks on 60 x 30 mm bases. Two bases go to make up a unit of roughly 40-45 figures. For the same rules I would use 2 base-units also for the Greek hoplites. Here's a comparison of 2-rank Roman base of Hastati versus a 3-rank hoplite base.
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| Does the Greek base look too deep by comparison to the Romans? Bear in mind the Greek figures are Baccus and slightly 'chubbier' than the H&R Romans. Both bases are 60x30mm. |
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| A complete Greek unit in 3 ranks. 60 figures in total, so much 'weightier' than the Roman unit of 40-45. |
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| Alternative configuration. Same no. of files per base, but in 2 ranks. In this case I would go for bases only 20mm deep because I might want to use double-depth phalanxes and 30mm would leave too much space. Each base would hold 20 figures so a unit in Basic Impetus would be 40 strong., about the same as the Romans. |
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| The chaps off to the left are in the double-depth phalanx on 20mm bases. |
The suggested 'unit' in the Alala! rules is 24 figures in 2 ranks. Each figure represents c.50 men. For 25-28mm sized figures the rules suggest a frontage of 15mm per figure with a 20mm depth. So the whole unit would be 180mm long. An alternative to individual figure removal is element, with the unit being 6 elements strong.
Rather than simply reducing the frontage to 1/4, I thought I would beef up the number of figures in such a unit and 1/2 the frontage. I'm considering two options:
Option 1
2 bases 60x20mm2 bases 30x20mm2 bases deep2 ranksTotal strength 60 figures (6 elements of 10 figures)Total frontage 90mmTotal depth 40mmThis would give me about 6 units (3 a side), maybe with 1 or 2 more if I use the Carthaginian heavy infantry too
Option 21 base 60x30mm1 base 30x30mm1 base deep3 ranksTotal strength 45 figures*Total frontage 90mmTotal depth 30mm* element size might be awkwardThis would give me about 10 units.
In the very first image, I prefer the look of the Roman's in two ranks, Chris, for what that's worth!
ReplyDeleteIt's worth a lot Keith. Thanks.
DeleteDoes that mean you're a vote in the '2 ranks for hoplites' box?
Probably!
DeleteAlways a tricky choice basing figures….at least you have the rulesets already in mind. Flexibility the key
ReplyDeleteYes. The tricky part is getting something that looks right as well as working with two sets of rules.
DeleteWould it be best to be consistent with your existing basing of two ranks Chris. Especially as the Greeks are a bit chubbier as you say.
ReplyDeleteObviously the Greeks went a bit softer or middle aged after Alexander, no wonder the younger Roman civilisation beat them 😂
That made me laugh Ben!
DeleteI'd say in the first image the difference between the hopolites and the Romans is too great, I think a bit less hopolites per base, they look great but the two bases don't look like they go together?
ReplyDeleteBest Iain
You're right Iain, they do look too different. I should probably re-base the Romans too! However, the Romans are supposed to have gaps between units and the Greeks not.
DeleteDo you what looks right to you. Where I know I have a ruleset that I will still with, I base to compliment that. Otherwise, base in a way that's flexible.
ReplyDeleteMy challenge is getting something that works with both rule systems and looks OK. I'll get there!
DeleteI'm always a fan of deeper units. I don't use figures removal as I don't see the advantage. I spend a lot of effort to get figures on the table so why remove them?
ReplyDeleteMy own Epic scale Carthaginians are 4 ranks deep on 2 bases 60x20, so a unit is 60x40 on the table.
I am with you on NO figure removal.
DeleteI must search out pictures of your Carthaginians WEK 3. I'm really tempted to have deeper bases/units for the hoplites.
DeleteThere is a potential compromise here, and that will be element removal. In any case, I won't be removing individual figures at this scale!
DeleteRamblings of an Eccentric Gamer Mk3 blog.
DeleteThere is a post in May. Lots more coming when I fix my picture issue.
Three ranks looks very imposing, but it will make the Romans look even thinner...
ReplyDeleteYes, the Romans do look under powered by comparison, but there will be more Roman bases for an equivalent number of 'men'.
DeletePersonally I like the two ranks look, as the 3 ranks looks too crowded. Ultimately it's obviously whatever works for you and the rules you plan to use.
ReplyDeleteAnother vote for 2 ranks! Thanks Steve.
Delete3 ranks for me, but …… if these are going to be a 2 base unit, then I think to the eye, when the bases are placed side by side, the figures should touch, so they look like a single unit / phalanx. I.e. the figures should not be based centrally on each base.
ReplyDeleteThen I would chop the Romans and have 2 small blocks per base, each three ranks deep, so that the maniple system is replicated. The Triarii can (should) be in line rather than block.
Thanks Norm. So far you're in the minority, but I fear you're right. i.e. I end up rebasing the Romans (and Carthaginians).
DeleteInteresting! In real life, what depth did these two formations use? I don't have a suitable book to hand, but suspect Hoplites were 6 deep? Not sure about Romans, were they the same? Another factor might be to think about what each figure represents, if it's 50 men then are they 3 ranks of 16 (plus a couple of officers/nco). If so, 2 figures deep is 6 ranks.. sorry this is getting into the sort of discussions that WRG used to have, but maybe they were right to do so! I will admit, figure removal seems an old school step too far these days.
ReplyDeletep.s. Wikipedia suggests Hoplite formations '8 or more' deep..
DeleteThanks David. I thought 8 or more rang a bell. Double that for Macedonians and, sometimes, Thebans.
DeleteBritannia says a maniple had 12 files in 10 ranks, so a phalanx and a maniple are about the same depth.